tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6178178746146487446.post4675394009613125615..comments2022-10-23T05:48:37.333-07:00Comments on \\...........//: Indie EntitlementLiz Rhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15083999308545721370noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6178178746146487446.post-86426383281499212382014-06-26T01:48:00.607-07:002014-06-26T01:48:00.607-07:00As someone who technically is an indie developer, ...As someone who technically is an indie developer, I heavily agree on the "paranoia and insecurity masked by surface congeniality" thing. You're trying to get your game noticed, and getting it noticed depends on the goodwill of a whole bunch of people: indie devs further up the totem pole, the press, youtubers - and of course potential players. So the temptation to get with the program is huge.<br /><br />It's probably also a sad constant across different forms of expression: music, visual arts, etc. "Indie" artists get to merge into the mainstream exactly if they are not too different, or critical, or political.<br /><br />FWIW I parsed the Phil Fish video kind of differently. I didn't think it was trying to make excuses for Fish as much as show that he's become a convenient shorthand and source of endless "news".Zarkonnenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09521847384270351992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6178178746146487446.post-72491933270313609612014-06-25T00:37:45.086-07:002014-06-25T00:37:45.086-07:00You write this post. Zach Gage makes a comment on ...You write this post. Zach Gage makes a comment on it & is literally immediately offered a showcase at GDC off the back of it.<br /><br />I'm sorry where we talking about indie privilege? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15350131984907376043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6178178746146487446.post-61451945527236216562014-06-21T06:52:13.547-07:002014-06-21T06:52:13.547-07:00Indie = wealth enjoying itself through games/poses...Indie = wealth enjoying itself through games/poses of pretend rebellion<br /><br />Symptomatic of the widening class divide at the turn of the 21st century.<br /><br />Anything resembling genuine "innovation" or "progress" will find no home among their sort. Who do you think funds their bloated conventions and award shows? Those who wish to actually "change things" in some way must find a truly independent, cost-effective means of publicizing themselves.<br /><br /><br />You're completely correct on the Phil Fish video, but it does have something of a point in regards to people preferring to lash out at a designated chump rather than actually address structural issues in society. (The video itself is rather guilty of this, in how it sidesteps the real targets of digital disparagement, the ones who aren't male.)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07025197671443137546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6178178746146487446.post-39543325679722256232014-06-20T23:37:55.846-07:002014-06-20T23:37:55.846-07:00Funny, Phil Fish is the only one I like of the thr...Funny, Phil Fish is the only one I like of the three of themIlyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01616688117246109267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6178178746146487446.post-12958890839965252072014-06-20T19:32:57.275-07:002014-06-20T19:32:57.275-07:00You make a lot of fair observations. At the same t...You make a lot of fair observations. At the same time, so what if a good experience "can win"? A good experience can also lose. An artist "with something to say" needs more than technology and the promise of progressivism. An artist needs active support and criticism, and while many people might want something different (something "indie"), the discussion tends to center on "AAA." It's as simple as this: some indie games are doing things that people want, but those games aren't getting much attention. A lot of this oversight is due to the fact that not all good experiences get coverage from the built-in hype machine. More than anything, I'm asking audiences to look beyond the hype and the obvious. You might say developers have all the technical tools they need, but you can't have a proper revival without sermons to the audience. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04375426441892604853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6178178746146487446.post-66819406745161927802014-06-20T14:36:07.391-07:002014-06-20T14:36:07.391-07:00btw the indie3 panel on experimental games (mentio...btw the indie3 panel on experimental games (mentioned in the article) is recorded online:<br />http://www.hitbox.tv/video/159338 (panel starts ~44 mins in)<br />http://www.hitbox.tv/video/159339<br /><br />(I missed it when it streamed so was happy to find it still accessible online!)Zaphoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04965141778767646473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6178178746146487446.post-12997901368023636872014-06-20T11:46:27.098-07:002014-06-20T11:46:27.098-07:00That was a really interesting read, thank you for ...That was a really interesting read, thank you for taking the considerable effort that must have been involved in writing it.<br /><br />I have to confess I'm genuinely perplexed by the "indie" moniker. There have always been game developers who create and innovate out of sheer passion and the enjoyment they get from doing so. The games were seldom created for commercial gain. We've existed since the first home computer, and I suspect will always do so. It's a culture I've been pleased to be involved in for decades, and I see no signs of its popularity waning - there's no "drop out" going to happen any time soon.<br /><br />But what you're describing in this post feels like something else entirely. A weird sub-culture that comes with the baggage of entitlement dragged behind it. Or worse. And it's not one I can identify with in any way either. The sooner the bottom drops out of that, the better.<br /><br />You rightly complain when the Experimental Gameplay Workshop has precious little going on in terms of experimentation or representation. But I suspect it's simply because those truly experimenting are highly unlikely to ever attend GDC anyway, a few factors spring to mind: (a) GDC is expensive. To get to, to attend, to stay at and expensive in terms of the time it takes to be there, time better spent on family vacation, etc (b) it's seen as an event to attend if game development is your profession (regardless if that's "indie" or AAA). For most devs I know they hold down regular day-jobs, quite often outside the realm of game development, or even IT at all (c) they do it for fun, enjoy the relative anonymity of the internet and don't care to socialise with others. I honestly believe these are the sorts of reasons the speaker list is so... conventional.<br /><br />Culture is a deep and fascinating subject area, but I do wonder if part of the issue is lumping "game development" under a single culture banner. The reality of what's out there is massively more fragmented, disparate and downright fascinating than that (and yes, I hope some parts of it die off soon!). But more power to those who uncover and write about it the deeper aspects of it, for they are many.PhotonStormhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05617379540181658659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6178178746146487446.post-68879784451541131502014-06-20T11:22:32.913-07:002014-06-20T11:22:32.913-07:00I see it more as technology reviving certain aspec...I see it more as technology reviving certain aspects of the medium. It's less an indie 'revolution' than an indie revival. In the early days of personal computers, they were not a mass market item, and games represented a niche audience. A lot of it was sold inexpensively via mail-order or catalog, not mass-market shrink-wrap retail. Dev teams were small or literally one-person shops. Auteurship was a key factor in marketing (Sid Meier, Roberta Williams, Jordan Mechner, Brenda Romero, Lord British, etc... ) <br />As gaming became mainstream, a lot of that got lost as what became AAA game development required larger and larger teams, not just for game dev itself, but building internal toolchains, developing engines, shaders, secondary teams for cinematics, mocap, audio, voice... If there was a Hollywood analogy, it's more like it jumped straight from Charlie Chaplin into the post-Star Wars summer-blockbuster special-effects market, where a movie has to open huge to make back its development costs. <br />It's striking to recognize that Hollywood titans like Lucas, Spielberg, Scorcese, De Palma and others all started out together as an indie filmmaking clique straight out of USC/UCLA film school. Their first movies didn't get wide distribution, but it built their reputations as interesting people with something to say. <br />Today, indie game devs have communication + marketing tools that work at scale (social media), distribution systems that work at scale (Steam and the various platform app stores), back-end systems that work at scale (AWS, Heroku, various cloud platforms), a ton of development libraries and tools so you don't have to write everything by hand in Assembler. In many ways they have the best of both worlds: the freedom of the early PC gaming era to stay small and write auteur games, and the ability to reach a vast potential audience. I suppose, as well, being indie means you don't need to please shareholders, your financial ambitions can be more modest, and you can trade things off for better work-life balance. <br />The barriers for curious audiences are lower, as well. It's easy to download and try an opinionated, experiential game like Loved, or experiments like Stranded. There are more channels devoted to covering indie games, more people spreading news via word of mouth, more game jams and meetups to bring people into the fold. <br />It doesn't have to be a revolution; we don't have to "topple" Ubisoft in order for indie developers to succeed. It just shows that there is an untapped market that was waiting for, or didn't know they wanted, something new. The successes of Fez, Flower, Journey, etc. proves that good experiences - even relatively "pure" experiences where it's not about scores, leaderboards or blowing things up - can win no matter where they come from. AJ Kandyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05214748531532225414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6178178746146487446.post-23946816360546895532014-06-20T11:09:42.672-07:002014-06-20T11:09:42.672-07:00"I enjoy AAA imperialist games prominent feat..."I enjoy AAA imperialist games prominent featuring iron sights made by young white American dudes as much as I do innovative text adventures"<br /><br />Isn't that kinda the point? That middle class white dudes can do whatever they want without getting shit and snark, while other people get mocked just for standing there?JonLagoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12676439200091041491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6178178746146487446.post-42818563594045378802014-06-20T11:00:21.726-07:002014-06-20T11:00:21.726-07:00as always, interesting post!
I was going to leave ...as always, interesting post!<br />I was going to leave a comment here but then I typed too much and it didn't fit. So I put the comment here:<br />https://medium.com/@helvetica/why-artists-should-market-f7c019b8f848By Zach Gagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06252938114365848718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6178178746146487446.post-59191703114930950202014-06-20T10:52:59.971-07:002014-06-20T10:52:59.971-07:00@Jake McKenzie "not all men"@Jake McKenzie "not all men"iamcarneirohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07421951629806520417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6178178746146487446.post-54429328386475027412014-06-20T09:01:50.561-07:002014-06-20T09:01:50.561-07:00I disagree with your premise. I enjoy AAA imperial...I disagree with your premise. I enjoy AAA imperialist games prominent featuring iron sights made by young white American dudes as much as I do innovative text adventures made by Christine Love or a lovely digital wargame made by Tomislav Uzelac from Zagreb Croatia. You don't need to hate Phil Fish or participate with Sarkeesian's work to be a positive force in indie culture and not doing so doesn't make you a part of a sphere of entitlement.<br /><br />I hope I haven't offended anyone too much with what I said, and I hope you have a good day.Jake McKenziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14800617964284689398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6178178746146487446.post-28975393911823212152014-06-20T06:24:07.977-07:002014-06-20T06:24:07.977-07:00"when most AAA games reflect hyper-imperialis..."when most AAA games reflect hyper-imperialist values, why would more marginalized people want representation in them?"<br /><br />To expand on this, most people focus on "AAA" because it's easy. What makes games like Braid, etc. so attractive is that they more closely resemble "AAA" games from a marketing standpoint. There will never be an indie revolution, in terms of representation or anything else, if we keep looking to big studios for answers. One wonders if video games could ever have something comparable to the renegade filmmakers of the 1960s and 1970s who upended the traditional Hollywood system. Those filmmakers had to have an audience willing to support and critique them. As of right now, the more renegade developers generally do not have such an audience. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04375426441892604853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6178178746146487446.post-75208396595582734262014-06-20T03:34:31.135-07:002014-06-20T03:34:31.135-07:00What exists as 'indie' right now (Indie Ga...What exists as 'indie' right now (Indie Game Movie II: The Orphans Of Derek Yu) is a gathering of four or five (maybe more) communities that try to be understanding at the best of times but are in essence too strong-willed to fully agree. With the big men taking on the 'indie' word, these groups are likely to grasp for separate identities.Zaratustrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16303623125302942679noreply@blogger.com